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The demise of the dollar

In a graphic illustration of the new world order, Arab states have launched secret moves with China, Russia and France to stop using the US currency for oil trading

By Robert Fisk

Iran announced late last month that its foreign currency reserves would henceforth be held in euros rather than dollars.

Rex

Iran announced late last month that its foreign currency reserves would henceforth be held in euros rather than dollars.

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In the most profound financial change in recent Middle East history, Gulf Arabs are planning – along with China, Russia, Japan and France – to end dollar dealings for oil, moving instead to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.

Secret meetings have already been held by finance ministers and central bank governors in Russia, China, Japan and Brazil to work on the scheme, which will mean that oil will no longer be priced in dollars.

The plans, confirmed to The Independent by both Gulf Arab and Chinese banking sources in Hong Kong, may help to explain the sudden rise in gold prices, but it also augurs an extraordinary transition from dollar markets within nine years.

The Americans, who are aware the meetings have taken place – although they have not discovered the details – are sure to fight this international cabal which will include hitherto loyal allies Japan and the Gulf Arabs. Against the background to these currency meetings, Sun Bigan, China's former special envoy to the Middle East, has warned there is a risk of deepening divisions between China and the US over influence and oil in the Middle East. "Bilateral quarrels and clashes are unavoidable," he told the Asia and Africa Review. "We cannot lower vigilance against hostility in the Middle East over energy interests and security."

This sounds like a dangerous prediction of a future economic war between the US and China over Middle East oil – yet again turning the region's conflicts into a battle for great power supremacy. China uses more oil incrementally than the US because its growth is less energy efficient. The transitional currency in the move away from dollars, according to Chinese banking sources, may well be gold. An indication of the huge amounts involved can be gained from the wealth of Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar who together hold an estimated $2.1 trillion in dollar reserves.

The decline of American economic power linked to the current global recession was implicitly acknowledged by the World Bank president Robert Zoellick. "One of the legacies of this crisis may be a recognition of changed economic power relations," he said in Istanbul ahead of meetings this week of the IMF and World Bank. But it is China's extraordinary new financial power – along with past anger among oil-producing and oil-consuming nations at America's power to interfere in the international financial system – which has prompted the latest discussions involving the Gulf states.

Brazil has shown interest in collaborating in non-dollar oil payments, along with India. Indeed, China appears to be the most enthusiastic of all the financial powers involved, not least because of its enormous trade with the Middle East.

China imports 60 per cent of its oil, much of it from the Middle East and Russia. The Chinese have oil production concessions in Iraq – blocked by the US until this year – and since 2008 have held an $8bn agreement with Iran to develop refining capacity and gas resources. China has oil deals in Sudan (where it has substituted for US interests) and has been negotiating for oil concessions with Libya, where all such contracts are joint ventures.

Furthermore, Chinese exports to the region now account for no fewer than 10 per cent of the imports of every country in the Middle East, including a huge range of products from cars to weapon systems, food, clothes, even dolls. In a clear sign of China's growing financial muscle, the president of the European Central Bank, Jean-Claude Trichet, yesterday pleaded with Beijing to let the yuan appreciate against a sliding dollar and, by extension, loosen China's reliance on US monetary policy, to help rebalance the world economy and ease upward pressure on the euro.

Ever since the Bretton Woods agreements – the accords after the Second World War which bequeathed the architecture for the modern international financial system – America's trading partners have been left to cope with the impact of Washington's control and, in more recent years, the hegemony of the dollar as the dominant global reserve currency.

The Chinese believe, for example, that the Americans persuaded Britain to stay out of the euro in order to prevent an earlier move away from the dollar. But Chinese banking sources say their discussions have gone too far to be blocked now. "The Russians will eventually bring in the rouble to the basket of currencies," a prominent Hong Kong broker told The Independent. "The Brits are stuck in the middle and will come into the euro. They have no choice because they won't be able to use the US dollar."

Chinese financial sources believe President Barack Obama is too busy fixing the US economy to concentrate on the extraordinary implications of the transition from the dollar in nine years' time. The current deadline for the currency transition is 2018.

The US discussed the trend briefly at the G20 summit in Pittsburgh; the Chinese Central Bank governor and other officials have been worrying aloud about the dollar for years. Their problem is that much of their national wealth is tied up in dollar assets.

"These plans will change the face of international financial transactions," one Chinese banker said. "America and Britain must be very worried. You will know how worried by the thunder of denials this news will generate."

Iran announced late last month that its foreign currency reserves would henceforth be held in euros rather than dollars. Bankers remember, of course, what happened to the last Middle East oil producer to sell its oil in euros rather than dollars. A few months after Saddam Hussein trumpeted his decision, the Americans and British invaded Iraq.

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drop the dollar
[info]stanmo42 wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:23 pm (UTC)
This is not a suprise. Arabs have been talking about this for many years. Bin Laden, Iran, etc
Re: drop the dollar
[info]tim9009 wrote:
Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 05:06 am (UTC)
Iran isn't Arab and Bin Ladin doesn't have anything to do with either finance or oil
Re: drop the dollar - [info]corporeal_v001 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 08:32 am (UTC) Expand
Re: drop the dollar - [info]tim9009 - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 07:50 am (UTC) Expand
Re: drop the dollar - [info]corporeal_v001 - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 08:10 am (UTC) Expand
Re: drop the dollar - [info]melaniki - Thursday, 8 October 2009 at 03:21 am (UTC) Expand
Re: drop the dollar - [info]earlozzy - Thursday, 8 October 2009 at 01:28 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: drop the dollar - [info]freedon4sale - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 06:34 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: drop the dollar - [info]gods_kingdom - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 09:12 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: drop the dollar. Is this not a surprise? - [info]mrbob555 - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 08:13 am (UTC) Expand
How's That Hope and Change Working?
[info]rightwinginc wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:24 pm (UTC)

I thought Obama was going to solve all of our problems. Shortly after the election, a black man took note of my anti-Obama bumper sticker and became outraged. He told me "It's going to take a black man to get us out of this mess!".

It can't get much worse than this, and you liberals can't blame Bush anymore.

RightWingInc.com
Anti-Obama Bumper Stickers
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working?
[info]corporeal_v001 wrote:
Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:27 am (UTC)

This was in the making way before Obama came onto the scene, please stop watching Fox News and see whats happening around the world because of US interference without blinkered eyes...
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]real1056 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 03:13 am (UTC) Expand
Re: How&#39;s That Hope and Change Working? - [info]corporeal_v001 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 07:55 am (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]lamouche - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 05:54 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]iamlivingit - Monday, 19 October 2009 at 04:39 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]howardbeale99 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 04:26 am (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]trevordeville - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 06:57 am (UTC) Expand
Re: How&#39;s That Hope and Change Working? - [info]corporeal_v001 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 08:12 am (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]rightinthelight - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 02:44 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]pistoo - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 03:36 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: How&#39;s That Hope and Change Working? - [info]corporeal_v001 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 03:58 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: How&#39;s That Hope and Change Working? - [info]iamlivingit - Monday, 19 October 2009 at 05:02 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]richardblogger - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 08:43 am (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]1jack - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 06:16 pm (UTC) Expand
Rightwinginc is wrong headed - [info]mr_magooo - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:37 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Rightwinginc is wrong headed - [info]real1056 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 03:36 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Rightwinginc is wrong headed - [info]mr_magooo - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 04:04 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Rightwinginc is wrong headed - [info]real1056 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 04:16 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Rightwinginc is wrong headed - [info]woodinio - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 01:30 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Rightwinginc is wrong headed - [info]mr_magooo - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 12:33 am (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]pete2069 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 03:15 am (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]pete2069 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 03:18 am (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]dagonwebatgmail - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 07:37 am (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]bobbyhawk - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 07:57 am (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]proximaking - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 11:56 am (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]moneyend - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 01:26 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]pistoo - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 03:21 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]eurobritish - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 03:28 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]easterntiger - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 08:49 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]jooca - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 04:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]jd7x7 - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 06:16 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]andreww51 - Thursday, 8 October 2009 at 04:38 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: How's That Hope and Change Working? - [info]andreww51 - Thursday, 8 October 2009 at 04:41 pm (UTC) Expand
why does it matter?
[info]vhawk1951 wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:25 pm (UTC)
if it does
Re: why does it matter?
[info]patriot_21281 wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:29 pm (UTC)
People, its time to wake up. This was planned with Obama helping this cause. Do you forget the bow before the Saudi King. Obama has an alliance with Europe. This is a Trojan horse, and its happening right in front of our eyes. Wake up liberals, countries will invade America.....Its time for everyone to see whats going on! You Hollywood freaks and all your money wont matter anymore, so WAKE UP!!
Re: why does it matter? - [info]vhawk1951 - Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:35 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: why does it matter? - [info]rathsham - Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:43 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: why does it matter? - [info]www_geekmom_net - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:17 am (UTC) Expand
Re: why does it matter? - [info]tomaustin - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 11:58 am (UTC) Expand
Re: why does it matter? - [info]iamlivingit - Monday, 19 October 2009 at 05:11 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: why does it matter? - [info]pete2069 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 03:32 am (UTC) Expand
Re: why does it matter? - [info]cix007 - Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:38 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: why does it matter? - [info]vhawk1951 - Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:44 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: why does it matter? - [info]rathsham - Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: why does it matter? - [info]corporeal_v001 - Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:46 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: why does it matter? - [info]vhawk1951 - Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: why does it matter? - [info]corporeal_v001 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:09 am (UTC) Expand
Re: why does it matter? - [info]vhawk1951 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 10:54 am (UTC) Expand
Re: why does it matter? - [info]krauth - Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: why does it matter? - [info]vhawk1951 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 05:08 am (UTC) Expand
Re: why does it matter? - [info]rosege0 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 03:09 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: why does it matter? - [info]vhawk1951 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 03:21 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: why does it matter? - [info]vhawk1951 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 04:01 pm (UTC) Expand
We must come together
[info]patriot_21281 wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:27 pm (UTC)
People, its time to wake up. This was planned with Obama helping this cause. Do you forget the bow before the Saudi King. Obama has an alliance with Europe. This is a Trojan horse, and its happening right in front of our eyes. Wake up liberals, countries will invade America.....Its time for everyone to see whats going on! You Hollywood freaks and all your money wont matter anymore, so WAKE UP!!
(no subject) - [info]dagonwebatgmail - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 07:39 am (UTC) Expand
Re: We must come together - [info]jesselv - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 09:33 am (UTC) Expand
Obamanation
[info]wbattack wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:27 pm (UTC)
Obama will do nothing, as usual, to stop it. He is viewed by the entire world as weak. Of course, they are right.
Re: Obamanation
[info]yosemitejoe wrote:
Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:18 am (UTC)
Wow. Hey Obama, stop this, save the greenback. Bomb some countries, hmmm?

Why not close the Federal Reserve and close the Empire down for starters?

What's the worth of a greenish paper note for which the printing presses roll (lately, pushing out trillions) to help prop up the economy whenever a magnificient bubble bursts (said bubble having been created by earlier printing runs) or whenever a war in faraway lands has to be deficit-financed? With which you, as an exporting country, are paid - but when you want to buy up some solid US companies with all your accumulated monies you are actually forbidden to so ("it's strategic and all that")?

I think people are slowly waking up to the fact that the greenback is missing a few zeros on its denominations. Look up the expression "not worth a continental". Legend has it that it was British counterfeiting that did for that kind of paper money. Guess what - it was government printing wut done it.

Re: Obamanation - [info]earthsojourner - Sunday, 11 October 2009 at 07:50 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Obamanation - [info]humanforce - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 03:58 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]rathsham wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:28 pm (UTC)
This is hilarious. If it's denied, it will only be because the U.S. is worried. Typical Fisk writing.

I guarantee that dollars will still be used to trade oil in 2020, either directly in as part of a basket.

I guarantee oil will not be priced in renminbi in 2020.

I guarantee that the U.S. economy will grow more than 2% per year on average through 2020, and that the Chinese economy will not grow 10% on average.

I guarantee that the U.S. debt-to-GDP ratio will be markedly better than it is today. (And today it is no worse than most of its peers.)

I guarantee that in 2020 there will be two powers that matter - the U.S. and China - with America retaining its predominance and a China that stands head and shoulders above all others after the U.S. And I guarantee that in 2020 there will be at most two other powers - the EU and India - who will be economically greater than all others after the U.S. and China, but who will wield far less influence. Russia will have less influence in 2020 than it does even today. The idea that the ruble would become a currency of importance is absolutely bizarre.
what are you smoking?
[info]adguy415 wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:43 pm (UTC)

Weaker than Jimmy Carter and our least experienced President, but yet, very shrewd. In your predictions you miss one important fact: connect the dots. He [Obama] told us his game plan many many months ago. Open your eyes and see, stop the blinking!
Re: what are you smoking? - [info]pete2069 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 03:36 am (UTC) Expand
I think, maybe... - [info]mtomato2 - Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:44 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I think, maybe... - [info]rathsham - Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:55 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I think, maybe... - [info]mtomato2 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 10:53 am (UTC) Expand
Dear Rathsham, - [info]danieldrambone - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 02:00 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]mitch911 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 03:15 am (UTC) Expand
This is exactly what we've been hearing in the US - [info]angrypancho - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 04:29 am (UTC) Expand
Somebody yanked Fisk's chain - [info]fin_d_empire - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 07:39 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]hugogg - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 10:21 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]uanime5 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:25 pm (UTC) Expand
Guarantee - [info]ivanleo2 - Thursday, 8 October 2009 at 03:36 am (UTC) Expand
"I Guarantee"... - [info]commonsense_2 - Friday, 9 October 2009 at 03:25 am (UTC) Expand
Huge news....
[info]haveagosoon wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:31 pm (UTC)
If true this is huge news and perhaps the reason why the price of gold and silver is surging.
Re: Huge news.... yeah right
[info]fin_d_empire wrote:
Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 07:48 am (UTC)
While there is no doubt that the greenback will fade away as a reserve and commodities trading currency, Fisk's tale of "secret meetings" is simply disinformation fed to him by dollar short-sellers who know he couldn't tell a forex put option from his rear end and therefore makes a perfect mark for a market manipulation scam. Those who yanked Fisk's chain, aware of his taste for a good conspiracy yarn (Syria blew up Hariri, Ahmadinejad fixed the elections), have made a killing on the forex market:
Dollar falls on oil plan report
BBC News - 41 minutes ago
The dollar has fallen following a report that Gulf states are in secret talks to replace the greenback as the main currency for the trading of oil.

Fisk is too clueless to have cashed in himself so all he's got in his hand now is his dick:

Saudi Central Bank Governor Denies Talks to Replace Dollar



Oct. 6 (Bloomberg) -- Saudi Arabia hasn't held talks with other oil producers and major consuming nations such as China on moving away from the dollar as the currency used to buy and sell oil, Saudi Central Bank Governor Muhammad al-Jasser said.

Al-Jasser, speaking to reporters in Istanbul where he's attending an International Monetary Fund summit, was denying a report in the London-based Independent newspaper, which said today that Gulf oil producers and customers including China and Brazil had held secret talks on phasing out the dollar in oil pricing.

The old fool is being jerked around constantly, first by the CIA and Mossad and now by forex sharks. What a pitiful end for what was once a brilliant and courageous reporter.
Chill!! - [info]hugogg - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 10:58 am (UTC) Expand
Petrol Dollar Cycle
[info]kenstepp wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:33 pm (UTC)
This should expose what the Federal Reserve has been doing to America.
Keep your hats on
[info]fin_d_empire wrote:
Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 09:56 am (UTC)
It's not the end of the Yankee Doodle world...yet. Fisk has been jerked around. Duped. Chumped. Bamboozled. Hornswoggled. Senility is a bitch, ain't it?

Dollar trims losses after UK media report denial


LONDON, Oct 6 (Reuters) - The dollar jumped across the board on Tuesday, trimming losses after Saudi and Russian authorities denied a media report saying Gulf Arab states were considering using currencies other than the dollar to trade oil.

The Independent said on Tuesday that Gulf Arab states were in secret talks with Russia, China, Japan and France to replace the U.S. dollar with a basket of currencies in the trading of oil.

Fisk can plead that he's an old fool, what's the Indy's excuse? The credibility of this paper was already scraping the bottom now it's sucking dirt.
Re: Keep your hats on - [info]freedommonger - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 10:25 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Keep your hats on - [info]fin_d_empire - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 02:11 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Keep your hats on - [info]allan_c - Friday, 9 October 2009 at 08:01 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info] - Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:33 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Hello Obama...wake up!!!
[info]federalismrulz wrote:
Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:28 am (UTC)
Correction: Bush may be a Republican, but he was no Conservative. Under Bush, government spending surged. That said, the Democrats held the congress since 2008 and it was primarily their policies including the debacle with Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac which caused this recession. The blame lies with all politicians, but mostly the ilk of Barnie Frank and the social engineering to redistribute wealth.

BTW Obamasux, the vulgar language only makes you look juvenile.
Re: Hello Obama...wake up!!! - [info]ourmaninferney - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 11:20 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Hello Obama...wake the fuck up!!! - [info]someofusknow - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 01:47 am (UTC) Expand
The demise of the dollar
[info]test4echoman wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:34 pm (UTC)
No Problem.

From this day on - 1 Bushel of ANY type of GRAIN from the U.S.A will cost 1 Barrel of Oil.

Dwayne Seibert
Re: The demise of the dollar
[info]filka_morozov wrote:
Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 07:46 am (UTC)

Sure, Dwayne Seibert. Whatever you say. Like other countries don't produce grain? Bwaaahahaha!
[info]nullius123 wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:35 pm (UTC)
Spot on. These economic/geopolitical shifts are seismic in nature - unpredictable and uncontrollable, but we know they do occur from time to time, and we can prepare for them.

If this thesis is even partially right, we can expect sterling to be sold off even more urgently than the dollar. The euro will start to look very attractive if London starts to go the way of Dublin and Reykjavik.

British Euro-scepticism comes at a dangerous time.
It Would be Ironic
[info]billdavy1949 wrote:
Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 08:04 am (UTC)
If we were not in the EU (Cameron's dangerous pandering to the weirdos in his party, and Rupert Murdoch) but had to join the Euro. We'd have little say in our own financial affairs. Gordon Brown's bequest.

And it really has little to do with Reagan/Bush/Obama. The fiscal tectonic plates have been shifting for some time. What really matters are the millions of consumer decisions.

Re: It Would be Ironic - [info]ivanleo2 - Thursday, 8 October 2009 at 03:38 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]hugogg - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 10:24 am (UTC) Expand
Dangerous
[info]unfarmer wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:35 pm (UTC)
I do believe this will be what triggers a world war. Mark my words...
Re: Dangerous
[info]nota_sheeple wrote:
Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:05 am (UTC)
Well, there are a lot of Libs waiting in line to Sign up for Uncle Sam
Re: Dangerous - [info]critter85711 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 01:52 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Dangerous - [info]bobbyhawk - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 08:58 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Dangerous - [info]hugogg - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 10:26 am (UTC) Expand
Thanks Obama
[info]arnie_j_rimmer wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:37 pm (UTC)
Thanks Mr. Obama - you and your Demon-crat congress have in 8 months destroyed the dollar by your petty political schemes. The "stimulus" was nothing but a payoff to unions and big labor and corrupt organizations like Acorn - $1 Trillion ($1,000,000,000,000.00) of pointless debt we can probably never pay back. It's no wonder the dollar is being dumped. I hope you are proud of yourself sir.
Re: Thanks Obama
[info]jwinston31stst wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:53 pm (UTC)
Solely blaming the events Mr. Fisk described on President Obama is about as intellectually dishonest as you can get. I also think President Obama has horrible policies, but you can't place them on his head. It was only a matter of time before the rest of the world said "enough" and pulled the plug on our hegemonic ownership of the dominant currency.

But go ahead. Send this article to 50 of your friends blaming "President Obama that socialist is trying to kill the dollar". Let's continue the current TV-based idiocracy we live in.
Re: Thanks Obama - [info]bilbobaggins1 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:02 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Thanks Obama - [info]arnie_j_rimmer - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:14 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Thanks Obama - [info]jwinston31stst - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:30 am (UTC) Expand
Off Topic Reply - [info]arnie_j_rimmer - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:48 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Off Topic Reply - [info]robertlebus - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 01:39 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Thanks Obama - [info]bilbobaggins1 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:47 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Thanks Obama - [info]garryd01 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 07:04 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Thanks Obama - [info]vvet4am1st - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 03:06 am (UTC) Expand
what does iraq have to do w/anything
[info]samchest wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:37 pm (UTC)
I'm questioning the impartiality of Mssr. Fisk. He seemed fairly reasoned in his reporting until the last paragraph where is truncated version of reality leaves the reader w/the clear implication that the mult-national invasion of Iraq was an effect caused by their decision to switch to the Euro. Did he forget the little incident in Kuwait the coincidentally happened prior to that invasion...

sheesh!

Re: what does iraq have to do w/anything
[info]rathsham wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:46 pm (UTC)
"I'm questioning the impartiality of Mssr. Fisk."

You don't have to question his impartiality; he wears his bias on his sleeve as a badge of honor, though new readers drawn here by Matt Drudge linking this site (yet again) may unfortunately not be aware of this. The Independent is a virtual cheerleader for doomspeaking on America, jostling with The Guardian and actually beating it in terms of the degree to which it permits its writers to veer off into fiction. All of the clustered pieces around this topic that you see here spring from the same well.
Re: what does iraq have to do w/anything - [info]widdup1983 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 01:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: what does iraq have to do w/anything - [info]k25150 - Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:57 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: what does iraq have to do w/anything - [info]sublmnlcrimnl - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:12 am (UTC) Expand
Re: what does iraq have to do w/anything - [info]ancientoneuk - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 02:28 am (UTC) Expand
We knew this was coming
[info]jwinston31stst wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:42 pm (UTC)
I was warned of this EXACT event, back in 2006, by a United States Congressman.


Realizing the world was embarking on something new and mind-boggling, elite money managers, with especially strong support from U.S. authorities, struck an agreement with OPEC to price oil in U.S. dollars exclusively for all worldwide transactions. This gave the dollar a special place among world currencies and in essence “backed” the dollar with oil. In return, the U.S. promised to protect the various oil-rich kingdoms in the Persian Gulf against threat of invasion or domestic coup. This arrangement helped ignite the radical Islamic movement among those who resented our influence in the region. The arrangement gave the dollar artificial strength, with tremendous financial benefits for the United States. It allowed us to export our monetary inflation by buying oil and other goods at a great discount as dollar influence flourished.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul303.html
Re: We knew this was coming
[info]toray99 wrote:
Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 03:31 pm (UTC)
I agree with you. The state controlled media is against Ron Paul. Made him out to be an idiot like Ross Perot. One needs to be aware that any candidate the state controlled media endorses is not for the best of America. Both political parties are corrupt and working against America and freedom. These so-called expert economists such as bernanke, paulson, geithner,summers and the state controlled taking heads such as crammer are idiots. Summers is number one with the repeal of Glass Steagal Act. Take advise from sound economists such as Peter Schiff. These other idiots didn"t see it coming. We're suppose to believe them now, you would have to be crazy to believe them on anything.
Thanks Obama
[info]bilbobaggins1 wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:45 pm (UTC)
This marxist is dismantling the United States and seeks to replace it with some third world hell hole in the mold of Cuba or Zimbabwe.

Looks like he is succeeding.

And liberals are "offended" by Rush wanitng this to fail?
Re: Thanks Obama
[info]hugogg wrote:
Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 10:38 am (UTC)
At least try to make sense.
You're trying to get so much anger out all at once that all we are getting is jibrishhh.

Everyone knows this is why Saddam had to be punished.
You can't blame this on Obama. How would Bush have prevented this?

It's been on the cards. Everyone has been waiting to switch the reserve currency to Euros for a long time. Europeans have been kind of polite about it but they know how to bide their time... something they learned from the Chinese. I was never about who runs the World today, it's about who can protect their rear end in the future. The EU knows this... we invented diplomacy, remember? When our Colonial Empires collapsed we realized what it takes to stay in there, stay protected (hence the word "protectionism") whilst the Big Boys fight it out. Britain, unfortunately always wants to be a Big Boy, with a big army and a big special relationship.

Now watch the experts pull their strings. This is a done deal. Iran and Venezuela wil be on board, China will respect its agreements with the EU. The US will have the choice between humble pie and nuclear warfare. They will choose the first because the devil is no longer in charge. It will all be fine.
Huge News.
[info]milchcow wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:48 pm (UTC)
It might also explain the surge in the Euro against Sterling.

I hope all those smarty pants who have been objecting to
our entry into the Euro will not feel too bad about it; even
Gordon Brown can make mistakes ....

Like selling our gold for a pittance.
(no subject) - [info] - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 01:25 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Huge News. - [info]yzdeaner - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 01:50 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Huge News. - [info]redneckhippie - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 02:27 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Huge News. - [info]rbsmith240 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 03:21 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Huge News. - [info]hugogg - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 11:18 am (UTC) Expand
Let the Games Begin
[info]b00mer2009 wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:48 pm (UTC)
Time for America to withdrawal from the world. Bring all of our troops home. Let Iran develop the Nbomb and threaten it's Arab neighbors. Let Iraq fall apart and invade Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. 100 % tarriffs on Chinese goods. Do it now before they are too powerful to stop. Inflate our way out of Chinese debt. Yes it will hurt badly but not as bad as when China takes over the world. Time for Isolationalism. Let the world see how much better it would be without the evil Americans. Scrap all this Cap and Trade crap and start drilling right now. Whatever it takes. Coal, Shale oil, natural gas, nuclear, everything. Let's become energy independant now before it's too late.
Re: Let the Games Begin
[info]corporeal_v001 wrote:
Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:22 am (UTC)

The USA is being proped up by Chinese money. You are talking as though the USA is in control. Expect to see the USA take the back seat as an ex-superpower not by choice but as a necessity...
Re: Let the Games Begin - [info]rathsham - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:46 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Let the Games Begin - [info]chris1946 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:40 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Let the Games Begin - [info]ak_7 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:56 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Let the Games Begin - [info]critter85711 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 01:27 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Let the Games Begin - [info]dydor - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 10:26 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Let the Games Begin - [info]idjk - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:38 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Let the Games Begin - [info]haroldplinth - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 08:44 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Let the Games Begin - [info]b00mer2009 - Wednesday, 7 October 2009 at 01:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Let the Games Begin - [info]another_g_o_m - Thursday, 17 December 2009 at 05:28 am (UTC) Expand
It matters a lot
[info]doughnut70 wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:48 pm (UTC)
The value of the currencies used is a lot higher and if this happens, all of the countries holding large amounts of dollars will suffer a major hit, not just the US which is why I am skeptical of the story. China for example which already has a lot of internal political problems will be willingly putting it's people through a lot of economic troubles to probably come out a lot stronger a decade from now. The US itself will probably take it's biggest economic hit in history and Britain won't be that far behind, but the whole world will take at least a small hit just because of the uncertainty. However if it happened, the countries in the basket of currrencies used would get dramatically more economic power and countries that have been good trading partners with the US would take a huge hit. Of course what this story dodges is the real reason for the move which is western support for Israel. If we would back away from that, all of this would go away. Thank god we are not that cowardly.
Re: It matters a lot
[info]rathsham wrote:
Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:18 am (UTC)
"China for example which already has a lot of internal political problems will be willingly putting it's people through a lot of economic troubles to probably come out a lot stronger a decade from now."

You've touched on an important point that is ignored by the America-declinists and, certainly, by Mr. Fisk: the story is probably legitimate, meaning it's probably actually happening. The Chinese are not going to do something that destroys their economy and the vast majority of their national wealth. Nations may make painful choices to come out stronger in the long run, but not China in this situation. The reality is that this is not something that will crash the dollar. As I pointed out elsewhere, the idea that the dollar's value rests on oil being priced in dollars is a complete and laughable meme - one so ignorant that even Osama Bin Laden himself discussed it after 9/11.

Oil does not dictate demand for dollars. Repeat that 25 times. Look it up. Look up the value of oil exports. Look up the total value of foreign exchange transactions on a daily basis.

Oil does not dictate demand for dollars.


"US itself will probably take it's biggest economic hit in history"

The U.S. will probably come out in a much healthier fiscal position in the medium-to-long term, as will other nations.
Re: It matters a lot - [info]hugogg - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 10:41 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]bilbobaggins1 - Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:51 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]ancientoneuk - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 02:11 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Reality Check - [info]gabholli - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 03:57 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Reality Check - [info]gabholli - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 04:06 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Reality Check - [info]whateverclown - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 06:21 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Reality Check - [info]corporeal_v001 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 08:43 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Reality Check - [info]dydor - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 10:32 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Reality Check - [info]graeme_w - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 10:02 am (UTC) Expand
Obama doubled national debt in 9 months
[info]johnwurts wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:54 pm (UTC)
The reason that the dollar is in danger of collapse is that Obama in 9 short months has actually doubled America's national debt and threatens much more damage because of his massive new proposed spending progams.
Re: Obama doubled national debt in 9 months
[info]magentamood wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:59 pm (UTC)
Actually the debt was more than doubled when Bush was in. Check you facts.
Re: Obama doubled national debt in 9 months - [info]johnwurts - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:30 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Obama doubled national debt in 9 months - [info]cjhames - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 08:03 pm (UTC) Expand
Declaration of Independence
[info]dhenderson12 wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:56 pm (UTC)
It's time for a new revolution in america to throw the current idiots out of office. The Obama Administration makes King George III look like a saint. http://www.TheseSelfEvidentTruths.com contains such a clarion call to action.
America couldn't see its future through its greed
[info]magentamood wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:56 pm (UTC)
times change and this is just another example of it. Much of the developing world is developed enough now to fly on its own and make independent choices. Not much can be done to change back to the past. Just like so many older American reminisce about the past and how much better it was, they too will remember a different America and way of life. The 1950s are gone and so are all the days of my way or the high way.

Re: America couldn't see its future through its greed
[info]bilbobaggins1 wrote:
Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 12:21 am (UTC)
This is not about America's greed. It is about the greed and lust for power of the brutal third world dictators of the world. If you want to see greed and envy just look at Socialists who seek to take what others earn for their own.

America has been the lighthouse of the world where up till now you could work hard and keep what you earned and your just reward for hard work. This is not greed, it is called freedom.
Re: America couldn't see its future through its greed - [info]ancientoneuk - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 02:44 am (UTC) Expand
Re: America couldn't see its future through its greed - [info]gabholli - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 06:54 am (UTC) Expand
Re: America couldn't see its future through its greed - [info]tonygfd - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 11:19 pm (UTC) Expand
loss of US super power status
[info]usa90402 wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:56 pm (UTC)
If they take our economic power away, we should immediately bring every US soldier home. We should have never dealt with countries who don't share our democratic ideals in the first place.
Re: loss of US super power status
[info]graeme_w wrote:
Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 09:53 am (UTC)
democratic ideals? Invading a Foreign power on the pretext of a lie in order to ensure a presence in the M East and access to pipelines? America is brainwashed by its own propaganda! You have made the world a much more dangerous place. You are responsible for countless, c-o-u-n-t-l-e-s-s deaths.
Re: loss of US super power status - [info]freedon4sale - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 07:07 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: loss of US super power status - [info]dydor - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 04:45 pm (UTC) Expand
Shift of world power from the West to the East
[info]corporeal_v001 wrote:
Monday, 5 October 2009 at 11:57 pm (UTC)

Looks like the world order is changing in front of our eyes. All superpowers die and now its the turn of the USA as we gradually see power move from the West to the East.

Shame that Blair aligned the UK with the USA. Most of the world is pissed off with the USA and obviously that includes the UK too, for our recent killing of many hundreds of thousands of civilians in Muslim countries. Not to mention the USA/UK support for the Israeli invasion/beat-down of Gaza.

Recently, many Muslim countries are boycotting Western products and services, in favour of Chinese and Russian ones and consumer/white goods from Korea and Japan.
Re: Shift of world power from the West to the East
[info]ozman9000 wrote:
Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 01:21 am (UTC)
Here's the deal. The people of the US take the hard hit and stop buying products made in China while finding ways to decrease our oil usage. Result, China goes back to the 4th world status, which they just left 10 years ago and the middle east can keep the oil. Chances of my fellow Americans doing this? I'd rather not bet.
Re: Shift of world power from the West to the East - [info]corporeal_v001 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 07:50 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Shift of world power from the West to the East - [info]real1056 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 03:48 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Shift of world power from the West to the East - [info]corporeal_v001 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 08:09 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Shift of world power from the West to the East - [info]achilles0200 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 07:32 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Shift of world power from the West to the East - [info]corporeal_v001 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 08:21 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Shift of world power from the West to the East - [info]dunque123 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 08:51 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Shift of world power from the West to the East - [info]corporeal_v001 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 09:31 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Shift of world power from the West to the East - [info]cjhames - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 07:59 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Shift of world power from the West to the East - [info]corporeal_v001 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 08:06 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Shift of world power from the West to the East - [info]cjhames - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 08:22 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Shift of world power from the West to the East - [info]corporeal_v001 - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 08:33 pm (UTC) Expand
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